www.iFourWinns.com

At $37K + (I think that was a price on the Red one with the 150 Opti) the Checkmate is no "entry" level boat. It is a performance hull and takes proper advantage of OB power.

As far as OBs...it is sort of like a few sayings....

"It's an outboard thing, you wouldn't understand"
"Once you've had an OB you'll never go back"

For me the power to weight, the space in the interior, the lack of a huge hole in the hull, and the overall general lack of required maintenance, combined with the modern OB fuel efficiency, convinces me it is the way to go.

_________________
Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

100% agree. An outboard powered boat has EVERY advantage over a similar sized I/O boat except one area: The back end. I/O gives you a sunpad and a swim platform. That's it. The OB boats give huge advantages in interior room, weight, hole-shot, top end, maintenance, cost of winterization, etc. HUGE advantage, not minor.

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

And I hope by my previous picture-posts nobody mis-understands me about the H180. I do really like almost everything there is about the H180. The over-all quality of the boat from nose to tail is higher than any of the other entry-level brands. I personally think you have to go to a Cobalt to 'slightly' better the overall build of a FW. But at triple the cost! I've owned a new Glastron also, and now that they're built in Cadillac I'm hoping the VEC junk is behind us. My VEC Glastron was very sub-par build quality.

I was really looking forward to the new H180, and my only disappointments are the smaller bow (I'd rather they take some room out of the cockpit to increase bow area) and the poor top speeds. I guess I still have that need for speed, and I was hoping FW would do some modifications to the bottom to increase efficience and speed.

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Previous Four Winns: 2003 Freedom 180, 150 Johnson XL, purchased new July 2005, sold Sept. 07
Current Four Winns: 2002 Horizon 170, 115 Yamaha V4, purchased May 2010 from family friend.

My engine is located underneath the sun pad area. Hence, all my interior setting is forward the sun pad area. Therefore, there is no loss in seating whatsoever! I would much rather have the sun pad configuration and and the versatility that comes with it. Im not snipping on anyone, but the facts are the facts. I trust the $37,000 price tag was the MSRP, correct? So you could most likely pick up the boat new for $25,000 or so. When you look at Four Winns in general, I would say that H180 OB is on the entry level of what Four Winns offers.

_________________
2011 H210 SS
MerCruiser 350 MPIC/Bravo I 300hp
"Crooked Wake"


Prior Boat
1999 Bayliner 1950 CL

The sun pad is nice, it depends on if you use it, some do and some don't. If you do not use the sunpad, a boat that size would have a lot more room with an OB because the rear seats can be up against the transom. If you fish, an OB gives you much more room to move around the boat.
You really can't appreciate the advantages of an OB, until you have changed a few starters in an I/O, had to reach anything on the rear of the engine, or thought you smelled gas in the bilge even once. Or had a leaky bellows that cost you $1000 in repairs because the leak was small and not noticed. If you had a big leak in the bellows it could sink the boat if not noticed.
Don't discount OB advantages in small boats, they are significant. I for one will not buy a Cat Converter equipped I/O, no thanks EPA, do not want a heat generator in the bilge, yes I'd still buy a used I/O but only if it did not have Cats. They will make manifold changes VERY expensive.

For those of you who do not maintain your own stuff, it may be a non issue, but trust me, if you kept your boat long enough to actually have to fix something, and fixed it yourself, you'd understand. Or you'd be cursing at the labor charge for changing a starter, oil pan, power steering cylinder, etc, any part that is hard to get at on an I/O. To say nothing of the difference in winterizing that needs to be done each year. New boats, well yes you don't see a big difference. Well used boats trust me there's a difference. The main advantage of an I/O is lower engine up front cost and a somewhat simpler engine design. That's it. When you are talking much less maintenance, 400 lbs less weight for the same HP, and no safety issue of gas fumes in the bilge, those are pretty significant. Yes they cost more but so do all the high tech cars most of us drive today. I love the simplicity of 4.0 inline 6 Jeeps but most people would gladly pay the extra cost of a more refined vehicle.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

LouCs response clearly articulates many of the reasons we OB fans can do without the sunpad over the motor.

To be clear the $37K price I noted was for the Checkmate 2000 BRX with a 150HP Mercury OptiMax. That was the out the door price at the show. This had already been discounted somwehat. I HIGHLY doubt they will be giving these away for much less...

The Four Winns H180 OB has a price tag of around $21-29k depending on which motor is chosen. And yes the H180 is the entry level Four Winns. That sort of goes without saying. As far as the Four Winns MSRPs are concerned it goes something like this:

H180 LE...MSRP $18,169 + options & freight
H180...MSRP $20-23K + options & freight
H180 OB...MSRP $21-29k + options & freight

The H180 OB SS at the show with a 130HP e-Tec had an out the door price around $24k. This had been discounted a bit.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

To try and more clearly show the difference in interior space, look at these two pictures:

H180 with Sunsport seating:



H180 OB:



My boat again:



Look at how much more legroom there is with an outboard. You gain at least 12", maybe 18, in the current generation boat.

For comparison, here is the H210:

_________________
Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

Personally I like having the versatility of an I/O. The sun pad is awesome when your on the hook. The built in swim platform is also a plus to have and is child friendly. The prop and out drive are basically hidden under the boat eliminating the safety risk of cracking a body part off of. Basically different strokes for different folks. However, I would love to see someone lay over the top of your motor while sun bathing. In the end they are all Four Winns, so nothing else really matter. LONG LIVE FOUR WINNS!!!



P.S. That 210 much more streamline which leaves it looking very sexy.

_________________
2011 H210 SS
MerCruiser 350 MPIC/Bravo I 300hp
"Crooked Wake"


Prior Boat
1999 Bayliner 1950 CL

The pix nicely show the space advantage of the OB. In fact I consider a 20 footer the minimum size acceptable in an I/O design, an 18 footer is just too small with the engine compartment taking up that much room. I thought of changing the design of my boat from the sunsport seating with the big sun pad and full bench seat to the style with the engine doghouse and a pair of jump seats on either side of the engine when I rebuilt the deck and interior. But it would have taken more work to re-do the sun pad to fit over a doghouse and also the coming panels would have to be re-done to fill in the open spaces in the engine compartment. It would have given a lot more moving around space though.

Our boat is kept on a mooring and I get to it by paddling out in a dinghy. In this situation having the swim platform is an advantage because it makes it easier to climb into the boat from the dinghy. So that's another I/O advantage I suppose, but most of the small OB boats here do have a small swim step on one side. However I do not like the long extended swim platforms that some I/Os have, because if you have to change a prop with the boat in the water, you can't at least not easily. The swim platform on my old 88 is perfect, big enough for boarding but not so big I can't change the prop with the boat in the water if need be.

The old OMC stringer I/Os had problems but one aspect of their design that was good was that the whole drive unit could tilt totally out of the water, like an OB. For people who keep their boats in the water that is a huge advantage. I'd love to see a company design an I/O that could do that without the problems in the stringer design.

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Now if FW would make a "mini" SL style boat with an outboard, then you would have the space in the bow as well
as the large cockpit. Sort of like what Rinker has done with the 190/200MTX, only drop the sterndrive in favor of a
nice big outboard.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

I want an SL222 with a 300 HP e-tec. I already mentioned this to FW. I didn't get any feedback.

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Current Operational Boats:
'04-Four Winns 180 Freedom 150 HP Evinrude
'72-Chris Craft Commander 31 Sedan Twin-350Qs

Not suprising. FW supposedly got "customer input" in the design of the V305. If they did, maybe the one customer that gave the input, had a few too many kool-aid's when he submitted his request. The only credit I will give, is that they actually DID make an outboard boat for 2011. And that has been requested for several years by many customers. I like the idea of a "20 foot-ish" SL with an outboard.

_________________
One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

YUK!!

_________________
2011 H210 SS
MerCruiser 350 MPIC/Bravo I 300hp
"Crooked Wake"


Prior Boat
1999 Bayliner 1950 CL

"Please Ignore The Man Behind The Curtain"

_________________
One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

They should look back at their own history, they made models as large as a 205 Sundowner and 200 Horizon with outboards, up until the late 80s. I don't know if they sold well, but now with all I/Os having price increases because of the Cat Converter equipped engines, the price difference is not as much as before, and when you factor in the lower maintenance cost inherent in an OB, it's probably a wash. The problem is that most people don't think about maintenance costs when they buy a boat, esp new buyers.
If they really want to sell OB boats, then that should become part of their ad campaign. After all, the car companies are constantly bragging about whose vehicle costs less to maintain. And the E-Tec OBs are especially low maintenance.....

http://assets1.fourwinnsmarketing.com/p ... izon%20(p6).pdf

http://assets3.fourwinnsmarketing.com/p ... kis%20(p16).PDF

http://assets3.fourwinnsmarketing.com/p ... pecs%20(11).pdf



The last 1 shows the spec sheets for the 91 Horizon 200, which you could still get with an OB, (you could get the same thing in 92) notice the difference in weight vs the sterndrive models, 500 lbs lighter comparing a 175 hp OB to a 175 hp sterndrive...that's significant on a boat that size.....

_________________
88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II