Bad Gas in Michigan: Watch out!

usje141 · **Joined:** Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:22 am **Posts:** 78

Below is a recent article published by a local TV station. In the back of my mind, I knew this was coming but didn't realize it was something that I had to be concerned with immediately. I'll be paying closer attention when I fill up and I'll probably purchase a big jug of the ethanol treatment. Thanks, EPA!

New Gas Can Kill Your Boat

Fourth of July weekend in Michigan is a great time to get out on a boat, but a terrible time to realize your boat won't start. Some marinas and repair shops are seeing more business this year -- for a very specific reason. News 10 tells you how to keep your boat out of the shop.
Posted: 7:16 PM Jul 2, 2011
Reporter: Rachel Thomas
Email Address: rachel.thomas@wilx.com

The sun is shining and the lake is glistening. It seems like a perfect day to be out on the water....until your boat doesn't start.

"It happens quite often. There are a lot of boats here and you can see them having trouble with their engines. It's usually a lot of frustration," said Kevin Thorrez, a local boater on Clark Lake.

The answer could be as simple as which fuel they're putting in.

"No, I didn't know that at all," said local boater Kirk Green. "I thought gasoline was gasoline and the higher prices that they charge us for it was not any difference in the gas. They just say it's additives they put in. I buy gas based on price."

But with more ethanol added to Michigan gas this summer, boaters should think twice about filling up based on price.

" This year we have seen it the worst because Michigan has gone to 15 percent ethanol," said Eagle Point Marina manager Jason Dunigan. "Boats and jet skis are having trouble running it because it eats the fuel lines and it turns the fuel lines into a silicone based jelly that clogs the passageways and the carburetors. We see it a lot more now than we ever have because the percentage in ethanol is higher."

Summer blends are using nearly double the amounts of ethanol at the pump than in previous years and the damage to your boat could cost more than $500 to repair.

Experts say the best way to protect your boat is to fill up at the dock with marine fuel. But if you want to avoid the extra dollar charge per gallon, you can buy ethanol treatment to pour into your tank before or after you fill up.

"Twenty percent of all boats we service have ethanol damage," said Dunigan.

And mechanics say one extra step can create smooth sailing, keeping you on the water

yrless11 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:23 am

arrghh....I just had my carb rebuilt do to ethanol eating away the seals. I'm hoping my fuel lines stay intact. I'm using stabil marine with every tank of gas from here on out. Any idea if premium has less ethanol that regular? Might have to switch to that as well. Better to pay a bit more for gas and ethanol treatment than have another carb rebuild and replace the fuel lines.

230 Mike · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2011 12:20 pm

So what would you all consider the "go to" ethanol treatment to be? (Other than doing away with ethanol and the bureaucracy that supports it, which I wholeheartedly agree with.)

Sta-bil Marine is pricey. Just wondering about alternatives.

yrless11 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:40 pm

Good question...hopefully someone more knowledgeable on this topic chimes in. Without doing any looking, there is Stabil Marine and Wally World has Attwood Startron treatment. Not sure what else is out there and what is best...

Does anyone know what's involved and cost to replace the fuel lines? I probably should do this too since I just had my carb done. FWIW, I have the 5.7gl VP engine.

Aussie_Horizon_190 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:58 pm

Some people swear by ValvTect - apparently vailable from West Marine stores.

Quote:

ValvTect Ethanol Gasoline Treatment is proven to stabilize gasoline, prevent corrosion, control moisture to help prevent phase separation, reduce octane loss and clean-up carbon deposits.

IMHO, E10 blends will never be compatible with engines that reside in water or require storage of gas over 1 month. The best I can suggest is go to your local airfield and purchase AvGas from there. There's no ethanol in AvGas... for a good reason!

If you are 15%, then there may well be some warranty issues as all manufacturers prohibit the use of gas containing over 10% ethanol... Mercury for example prohibits the use of E10 fuel on pre 2003 engines because of the adverse effect on the fuel system.

This is an interesitng link http://www.fuel-testers.com/fuel_additives_gas_treatments.html

Kelleyo · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:57 am

I found a gas station that still selsl non-ethanol gas. That is my short term solution. My long term solution is to vote for candidates who will eliminate ethanol mandates and subsidies. All it has done is cost us billions as we give out subsidies and drive up the price of food (beacuuse of the unnatural demand for corn) and damage our vehicles.

Now it is hard to pull the subsidies becuase the lobbyists and unions will claim that thoused of jobs will be lost if the Ethanol fiasco is ended. ADM is one of the main culprits.

LouC · **Posted:** Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:09 pm

Bad politics, bad environmental policies, very powerful special interest groups, same old story.
Now if you are in a region that has always had E-10, since your boat was new, you might not have too many problems as long as it's really E-10, and not E-20 or whatever it gets mixed at.
Here they switched over about 7 years ago, and the issues I had were a stuck anti-siphon valve (maybe not an ethanol issue since the boat was already about 15 years old at that point) and having to rebuild the Quadrajet 2x in 9 years. We had a 75 Olds with a Quadrajet and never had to rebuild that carb, in about 14 years of running straight gas. If all the components were really made to tolerate the ethanol, that would be one thing. But if your boat ran on straight gas for many years, there is a certain amount of gunk in the tank, and the ethanol is a strong solvent and will clean out the tank. Which will then clog fuel filters. Keep spare 10 micron filters on hand and get ready to change them a few times as the tank gets cleaned out. After that, as long as it's really only E-10, and your deck fill gas cap does not leak water when it rains, you might not have too much trouble. I haven't other than the 2 carb rebuilds....

Jafo4U · **Joined:** Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:33 am **Posts:** 1026

My friend drives to the local airport and we park the boat on the side of a hangar and the guys from the local FBO come out and fill the boat like they are filling an airplane. They say it is becoming quite regular business for people that want to avoid large repair bills for their toys.

230 Mike · **Posted:** Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:35 am

100 octane avgas? Interesting.

Jafo4U · **Joined:** Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:33 am **Posts:** 1026

Yeap he doesn't have a problem running it he says. I am not sure if I would do that in my boat but he does he has a Baha with a couple of souped up engines. I don't believe he would run it on pure avgas but the amount he did run would cut down the ethanol content. I know he used 93 octane at the gas station to avoid misfires in the engine with low octane 87.

Aussie_Horizon_190 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:51 pm

AvGas is perfect as it is 100 octane. You can definately run it straight with no problems at all. I used to run it in the carbed small blocks I raced, and any fuel left over at the end of the season ended up in my road car.

Certainly gets around the Ethanol issues.

Jafo4U · **Joined:** Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:33 am **Posts:** 1026

Nice to know I will definitely be taking my boat to the airport also since it's only a mile from my house.

Aussie_Horizon_190 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:30 pm

"I love like the smell of AvGas in the morning.." :lol:

ric · **Posted:** Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:54 pm

Ethanol is not an issue. Why does it make your boat run sluggish and kinda rough running the stuff? That's easy. It burns at a different rate. So how do we go about solving this?

All boat engines are tuned for E0 gas. As in, no ethanol. E10 burns differently then E0. Fuel injected cars have no problem handling this. Fuel injected boats should be okay. Carburated boats? Big problem.

So what is the problem? E10 requires more gas to create the same output as E0 and burns a tad slower so you need a bit more ignition timing. Our old technology engines can not adapt to this automatically. We have to re-adapt them. You have to readjust and rejet the carb and adjust the ignition timing. What is the outcome? An amazing running boat on E10 pump gas as if you were running the old school stuff.

Open up a shop that specializes in tuning boats to run E10, E15, or even E85 and you'll be living easy for a few years.

PS, running 100 octane in a stock boat is going to kill more horsepowers then E10 as it burns even slower and requires even more timing.

LouC · **Posted:** Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:27 am

What e10 does, is add oxygen to the fuel this was done to make it cleaner burning. That leans out the mixture . Marine inwards need a pretty rich mix due to constant load. I set the idle mix on the rich side and make sure both total and base timing is set right. And, I use only 93 octave to prevent detonation. I also check the color of the plugs.....should be light tan.

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Bad Gas in Michigan: Watch out!

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