Fire Suppression System Maintenance

Paul I. · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:29 am

GTBecker wrote:

Paul I. wrote:

This will also give you the weight of the tank.

Do you see a gross weight there? I only found it punched on the bottle itself.

I am sorry, I saw the 2 wights, not realizing.

But if it is on the bottle, your all set then. If needed, you can e-mail them, lower left conner http://www.fireboy-xintex.com

GTBecker · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:30 am

kp47 wrote:

The 'system' is just a nozzle that opens at 175* F and floods the engine compartment with Halon. And a light on the dash...

I haven't checked mine, but the Fireboy manual says that the engine compartment blower should be wired so that it shuts down if the bottle has fired. It would do that by wiring the blower ground through the bottle pressure switch.

The Four Winns schematic doesn't show that connection - but it doesn't show the fire extinguisher at all, either. The Fireboy manual says "...in order to be fully compliant with U.S. Coast Guard Rule 162.029, when this system is installed in boats having powered ventilation (i.e. a blower that is on any time the engines are running) the ground connection of the ventilation blower must be connected to the pressure switch...". I suppose an attorney could argue if a manually-switched blower like we have "is on any time the engines are running" but, if installed as a factory option, I would expect Four Winns to have made that connection - so there actually might be a little more to the system than just a helm indicator.

Cap'n Morgan · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:49 am

Sure there is more to it than a helm indicator. That's why it's called a "system" You may want to either check out the way it is installed yourself, or have it checked by a tech. The system on our boat was checked when we bought it, and it is fully functional, charged, and fully compliant. Just one of the things a good surveyor and dealer verify before they sell a boat.

ric · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:07 am

Oh and don't listen to the wives tales.. halon is very safe. Safer then powder extinguishers, and it doesn't make a mess. Also takes less to do more. It only takes an air mixture of around 7-10% halon to put out a fire and it can linger in a non vented space for up to 30 minutes to keep it out. Powder/foam types need upwards of 50 to 100% coverage

GTBecker · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:17 am

Cap'n Morgan wrote:

Sure there is more to it ... That's why it's called a "system"...

Yes. My mother-in-law bought a system, too, and she didn't wait - she got two systems and only paid extra shipping and handling. And they included the packaging and a free spatula! Amazing!

I am an engineer. System means more than just two parts in my circles - and this qualifies, minimally - but the mounted bottle alone, thankfully, is all that is necessary to fill the compartment with gas when it's needed.

kp47 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:17 pm

GTBecker wrote:

kp47 wrote:

The 'system' is just a nozzle that opens at 175* F and floods the engine compartment with Halon. And a light on the dash...

I haven't checked mine, but the Fireboy manual says that the engine compartment blower should be wired so that it shuts down if the bottle has fired. It would do that by wiring the blower ground through the bottle pressure switch.

The Four Winns schematic doesn't show that connection - but it doesn't show the fire extinguisher at all, either. The Fireboy manual says "...in order to be fully compliant with U.S. Coast Guard Rule 162.029, when this system is installed in boats having powered ventilation (i.e. a blower that is on any time the engines are running) the ground connection of the ventilation blower must be connected to the pressure switch...". I suppose an attorney could argue if a manually-switched blower like we have "is on any time the engines are running" but, if installed as a factory option, I would expect Four Winns to have made that connection - so there actually might be a little more to the system than just a helm indicator.

Mine has the factory fireboy 'system' and it has no connection to the blower, just the indicator light. Its a good idea to turn the blower off if it discharges since drawing fresh air in when your engine compartment is on fire certainly wont help matters. Halon and its substitutes deplete oxygen, it has a hard time working when you are pumping oxygen in

I'm sure some boats have relays and whatever to turn the bilge off, but mine doesnt. But either way the head itself is simply a temperature controlled manual actuator.

I dont think most recreatioal boaters drive with their bilge blowers on all the time so thats the out, I'm sure some larger boats have blowers that run all the time. Of course there has been times I've left it on for a long time when on plane so I may wire a relay in there somewhere to shut it off. But then you have the chance of the relay failing and the bilge blower not working lol.

My bilge fume detector 'system' also has two wires that are supposed to turn On the blower if it detects fumes, but those two wires are nicely taped off behind the gauge panel.

kp47 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:27 pm

ric wrote:

Oh and don't listen to the wives tales.. halon is very safe. Safer then powder extinguishers, and it doesn't make a mess. Also takes less to do more. It only takes an air mixture of around 7-10% halon to put out a fire and it can linger in a non vented space for up to 30 minutes to keep it out. Powder/foam types need upwards of 50 to 100% coverage

Halon is great, but its ozone depleting, just like R-12 compered to 134a. No one ever said Halon didnt work, matter of fact it works very well for its intended purpose.

But they dont manufacture it any more in the US. I want Halon because its is the most effective and being a drag racer weight is very important and it takes 1/2 as much Halon as the substitutes to work. Same with aircraft and aerospace, thats where the main development of Halon substitutes comes from.

ric · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:45 pm

kp47 wrote:

ric wrote:

Oh and don't listen to the wives tales.. halon is very safe. Safer then powder extinguishers, and it doesn't make a mess. Also takes less to do more. It only takes an air mixture of around 7-10% halon to put out a fire and it can linger in a non vented space for up to 30 minutes to keep it out. Powder/foam types need upwards of 50 to 100% coverage

Halon is great, but its ozone depleting, just like R-12 compered to 134a. No one ever said Halon didnt work, matter of fact it works very well for its intended purpose.

But they dont manufacture it any more in the US. I want Halon because its is the most effective and being a drag racer weight is very important and it takes 1/2 as much Halon as the substitutes to work. Same with aircraft and aerospace, thats where the main development of Halon substitutes comes from.

Al Gore is in the house!

R12 is a heavy gas, it sinks. I guess if you flew a giant container up in the Space Shuttle (too soon?) and released it in the upper atmosphere it might bond with a few molecules. R12 was deemed illegal because Dupont's patent ran out on the stuff. So they created R134a and called it "safe" yet it still kills ozone just like R12..... but it has a new patent that doesn't run out for a long time

GTBecker · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:05 pm

kp47 wrote:

... I may wire a relay in there somewhere to shut it off...

No relay required if the blower draws less than 5A, it appears. Just pull the blower ground wire over to the bottle switch high side, about 10 feet of #16 in mine.

Mine also has a spare jumper connector to close the indicator circuit if the bottle switch is unplugged. I understand needing that if the blower circuit was grounded through the switch but that's not the case so, in reality, what's that there for? A full-time green light?

kp47 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:08 pm

ric wrote:

kp47 wrote:

ric wrote:

Oh and don't listen to the wives tales.. halon is very safe. Safer then powder extinguishers, and it doesn't make a mess. Also takes less to do more. It only takes an air mixture of around 7-10% halon to put out a fire and it can linger in a non vented space for up to 30 minutes to keep it out. Powder/foam types need upwards of 50 to 100% coverage

Halon is great, but its ozone depleting, just like R-12 compered to 134a. No one ever said Halon didnt work, matter of fact it works very well for its intended purpose.

But they dont manufacture it any more in the US. I want Halon because its is the most effective and being a drag racer weight is very important and it takes 1/2 as much Halon as the substitutes to work. Same with aircraft and aerospace, thats where the main development of Halon substitutes comes from.

Al Gore is in the house!

R12 is a heavy gas, it sinks. I guess if you flew a giant container up in the Space Shuttle (too soon?) and released it in the upper atmosphere it might bond with a few molecules. R12 was deemed illegal because Dupont's patent ran out on the stuff. So they created R134a and called it "safe" yet it still kills ozone just like R12..... but it has a new patent that doesn't run out for a long time

I dont know the back story but R12 and Halon production was killed by the EPA in '94, from my experience 143a doesnt work as well as R12. But it may be the older automotive systems were just larger, I'm not a chemical engineer.

These days farting causes ozone depletion according to the greenies, only a matter of time before they distribute federally mandated butt corks.

kp47 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:23 pm

GTBecker wrote:

kp47 wrote:

... I may wire a relay in there somewhere to shut it off...

No relay required if the blower draws less than 5A, it appears. Just pull the blower ground wire over to the bottle switch high side, about 10 feet of #16 in mine.

Mine also has a spare jumper connector to close the indicator circuit if the bottle switch is unplugged. I understand needing that if the blower circuit was grounded through the switch but that's not the case so, in reality, what's that there for? A full-time green light?

I didnt know how much current the fire bottle pressure switch was rated for, or the bilge blower draw either so I was just supposin'

I dont have the fire system manual, its just there (I bought the boat used) and it uses the moldex connectors like everything else so I assume its factory.

BUT

I did look at the wiring diagram for mine and it appears it is hooked up to the ground side of the blower. I'll have to look tomorrow when I'm on the boat but I could swear there are only two wires going to the the pressure switch on the bottle but there may be three. But it looks like I was wrong and it is wired into the blower, thats why the jumper is there if there if no bottle installed.

So if you pull the bottle for service its probably a good idea to jump the wiring if you want the blower to work.

Paul I. · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:29 pm

kp47 wrote:

GTBecker wrote:

kp47 wrote:

The 'system' is just a nozzle that opens at 175* F and floods the engine compartment with Halon. And a light on the dash...

I haven't checked mine, but the Fireboy manual says that the engine compartment blower should be wired so that it shuts down if the bottle has fired. It would do that by wiring the blower ground through the bottle pressure switch.

The Four Winns schematic doesn't show that connection - but it doesn't show the fire extinguisher at all, either. The Fireboy manual says "...in order to be fully compliant with U.S. Coast Guard Rule 162.029, when this system is installed in boats having powered ventilation (i.e. a blower that is on any time the engines are running) the ground connection of the ventilation blower must be connected to the pressure switch...". I suppose an attorney could argue if a manually-switched blower like we have "is on any time the engines are running" but, if installed as a factory option, I would expect Four Winns to have made that connection - so there actually might be a little more to the system than just a helm indicator.

Mine has the factory fireboy 'system' and it has no connection to the blower, just the indicator light. Its a good idea to turn the blower off if it discharges since drawing fresh air in when your engine compartment is on fire certainly wont help matters. Halon and its substitutes deplete oxygen, it has a hard time working when you are pumping oxygen in

I'm sure some boats have relays and whatever to turn the bilge off, but mine doesnt. But either way the head itself is simply a temperature controlled manual actuator.

I dont think most recreatioal boaters drive with their bilge blowers on all the time so thats the out, I'm sure some larger boats have blowers that run all the time. Of course there has been times I've left it on for a long time when on plane so I may wire a relay in there somewhere to shut it off. But then you have the chance of the relay failing and the bilge blower not working lol.

My bilge fume detector 'system' also has two wires that are supposed to turn On the blower if it detects fumes, but those two wires are nicely taped off behind the gauge panel.

I would not worry about the blowers, as mentioned above, I turn them off after starting. My last boat had a factory system, it was not wired to the blowers. I installed one myself, on my current boat and maybe I will wire it in. It is very simple to do. My concern at the time, there was NO extinguisher at all.

kp47 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:36 pm

Paul I. wrote:

I would not worry about the blowers, as mentioned above, I turn them off after starting. My last boat had a factory system, it was not wired to the blowers. I installed one myself, on my current boat and maybe I will wire it in. It is very simple to do. My concern at the time, there was NO extinguisher at all.

Look at the post above, it looks like it is tied into the blower from the factory, at least on a 2006 248 anyhow

Paul I. · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:39 pm

kp47 wrote:

GTBecker wrote:

kp47 wrote:

... I may wire a relay in there somewhere to shut it off...

No relay required if the blower draws less than 5A, it appears. Just pull the blower ground wire over to the bottle switch high side, about 10 feet of #16 in mine.

Mine also has a spare jumper connector to close the indicator circuit if the bottle switch is unplugged. I understand needing that if the blower circuit was grounded through the switch but that's not the case so, in reality, what's that there for? A full-time green light?

I didnt know how much current the fire bottle pressure switch was rated for, or the bilge blower draw either so I was just supposin'

I dont have the fire system manual, its just there (I bought the boat used) and it uses the moldex connectors like everything else so I assume its factory.

BUT

I did look at the wiring diagram for mine and it appears it is hooked up to the ground side of the blower. I'll have to look tomorrow when I'm on the boat but I could swear there are only two wires going to the the pressure switch on the bottle but there may be three. But it looks like I was wrong and it is wired into the blower, thats why the jumper is there if there if no bottle installed.

Forgive me, you are making it harder than it needs to be. Just take the blowers ground and move it to the pressuse switch lead that is connected to the led panel light. The other wire from the switch is grounded.

So, you have a fire(I hope NOT), the STUFF comes out and puts the fire out. AT the SAME time the pressure switch opens, the blowers and the LED now shuts off from loss of grounding/Neg voltage. We DON"T need no stinken wiring diagram!! (ha ha ha)

kp47 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:44 pm

Paul I. wrote:

Forgive me, you are making it harder than it needs to be. Just take the blowers ground and move it to the pressuse switch lead that is connected to the led panel light. The other wire from the switch is grounded.

So, you have a fire(I hope NOT), the STUFF comes out and put the fire out. AT the SAME time the pressure switch opens, the blowers and the LED now shuts off from loss of grounding/Neg voltage.

I'm not making it hard, its pretty easy because its already done it looks like. In the wiring diagram thats exactly what four winns did on mine.

I thought there was only two wires going to the pressure switch, but there may be three, and if there is its already done

www.iFourWinns.com

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