Why you should not use E-15 in your engine.....

ric · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:29 am

How about VP/MC gets off their lazy butts and installs automotive style fuel tanks and a tad more modern engines? Problems solved. Indmar has been doing it for nearly 10 years now, they successfully converted the LS1 into a good marine engine sold in Malibu and other inboard boats. If Volvo Penta/Mercruiser would get off their 1950's cash cow and sell a LS1 sterndrive package all these silly E10/E15 concerns would disappear overnight.

SeriousRob · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:22 am

One fact. Ethanol does not increase power in an internal combustion engine. Ethanol has a much lower energy content than gasoline. It takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equal the energy of gasoline. What ethanol does have is a higher octane rating which in purpose built race engines allows the engine to be built using a higher compression ratio.
Ethanol is not more efficient or more powerful.

Second fact. E85 (85%) alcohol does not provide a significant improvement in CO2 emissions when you take into account you have to burn approximately 25% more ethanol than in a gasoline fueled vehicle. Consumer Reports calculated a 0.5% improvement only when they ran controlled tests.

LouC · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:44 am

As long as you have tanks with a vent open to the air, not with a charcoal canister like cars, you can still have moisture absorbtion into the fuel. I have seen the lastest regs on boat fuel tanks and they are going to a closed system like cars, so that problem may decrease.
Ric your arguments are valid only for current production, but if the gov't mandates fuel, that cannot be used for the thousands and thousands of boats and small engines that were made before the requirements for oxygenates in fuel, how fair is that to consumers? How is that fair gov't regulation? We have no choice, it's E-10 or nothing. It is not fair, it is not sensible, it is potentially unsafe, and why don't you read a bit why, the FAA does not allow ethanol in av-gas? Moisture absorption and engine failure. Your plane engine conks out you die. Boats are not that different depending on where you boat.

ric · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:17 pm

Well change has to happen. Is it fair? no. Only a few simple changes are needed. If you can't afford a jet kit and timing light you shouldn't own a boat.

230 Mike · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:23 pm

ric wrote:

How about VP/MC...

How about you begin to accept the fact that the subject here isn't CARS?

Most people - believe it or not! - are not interested in tweaking their carbs to suit the political whims of the moment. They own a boat for the enjoyment of getting out on the water, and they have a reasonable expectation that if they buy fresh fuel and do the published maintenance on their engine, that it will run as intended. No tweaking, no Jeg's, no plug wires made from unobtainium, no Mr. Gasket stickers on the transom. Not coincidentally, these are usually the same people who don't go out on public forums and talk about "taking a dump" on their boat, humping some girl they don't know the name of, etc. In other words, they are adults.

If you want to live your life in the realm of the race car and all things Summit/Jegs, great - go do that. BOATS ARE NOT CARS. VP/MC can't do a thing about fuel tanks that were installed 20 years ago. You want the marine equivalent of a Prius? GREAT - GO BUILD IT.

Why can't you make even the most basic attempt to learn anything, or even see anything from anyone else's point of view?

230 Mike · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:36 pm

ric wrote:

If you can't afford a jet kit and timing light you shouldn't own a boat.

Every time I think you can't possibly post anything more asinine than your previous post, you prove me wrong.

Adults who own boats typically buy them for reasons OTHER than working on them. Most of them can afford to buy a train car load of timing lights. What makes you think they have any interest in knowing how to use them, or have the slightest interest in spending their time that way?

ric · **Posted:** Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:45 pm

I am very educated. I'm smart enough to know that our government isn't going to cater to the needs of boaters. They don't give two craps if your boat can't run e10 or e15. Educate yourself, fix your boat to run the new gas, or pay someone to do it for you. Ethanol is here to stay.

298VISTA2000 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:17 am

ric wrote:

I'm smart enough to know that our government isn't going to cater to the needs of boaters. They don't give two craps if your boat can't run e10 or e15. Ethanol is here to stay.

You're right ric about the government not giving two craps about about the consumer but I disagree that ethanol is here to stay. Ethanol has been nothing but another example of a failed government program whose intent was to do something good but ended up doing the total opposite. We were promised that it would be environmentally friendly, cost effective and lead to less dependency on the middle-east and now we know this is not the case. We need to tap into our own oil reserves and quit being a bunch of tree-hugging, towel-headed loving pussys.

Gas prices since ethanol subsidies ended at the end of 2011

ric · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:35 am

well, right now my gas pump sells E10 so that's what I have to use. Didn't take but 30 minutes to tweak the engine and another 15 to install a water separating fuel filter while sipping on beer. If E15 comes out, I'll re-adjust again. I don't make gas, gas companies make gas. Sitting around complaining it sucks doesn't solve anything.

All the time people spend crying on the internet about E10, they could have used that wasted time to just tweak their engine to run E10 perfectly.

I think people just like to complain. 10% Alcohol is nothing. There's 16 cups in a gallon, the ethanol in E10 occupies up to 1.6 cups of that. If you were to compare the alcoholic proof of gasoline... it equals anywhere from 15 to 20 proof. AKA... the alcoholic strength of wine. We all know how corrosive wine is :roll:

LouC · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:40 am

You know I am amazed at how apathetic your generation is, you just accept whatever bull the gov't and their ignorant crop of money manipulated regulators puts out there. You do know that you live in a democratic country, you have the right to protest what you don't like and if you think that special interests pushing ethanol has done ONE good thing for the consumer, well than prove it. My generation at least stood up against the lies about the Vietnam war and turned the tide of public opinion, what are we now a nation of sheep? I wrote a number of letters to elected officials to keep the too powerful EPA from forcing E-15 on boaters and guess what, it worked. So the message is if you thing big gov't is always going to do what's best for you, think again, look at FACTS, and vote, write, stand up for your rights. Our taxes pay for this regulation, when it no longer serves the majority of the people it is time to change it.

ric · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:14 am

Okay well protesting and voting isn't going to make my boat run on the E10 sold at my local gas pumps this weekend.

SundayDinner · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:07 pm

I don't know how it's possible, but I agree with all the points made in these posts.

1. I agree that ethanol sucks and that it does cause corrosion and damage in marine engines.
2. I agree that ethanol was pushed for the "right" reasons (better for the environment, reduces dependency on foreign oil), but that it is an experiment that has proven to do more harm than good (boat motors and food costs).
3. I agree that, for the forseeable future, we are stuck with the stuff, so we may as well figure out ways to mitigate the problem and get our boats to run better (fuel additives or whatever).
4. I agree that I did not buy my boat solely so that I could work on the engine. I bought it to enjoy some quality time with my family and friends and some adult beverages.
5. I agree that boat manufactures should be as concerned about fuel efficiency and pollution as the car companies. I personally would pay extra for the boat version of a Prius.
6. I agree that my (and Ric's) generation are pretty damn apathetic about politics and the political process because both sides of the political aisle have had their heads up their a**es for way too long.
7. I agree that we should vote and lobby for our interests because it's the essence of what it means to be an American.

As the great Rodney King said, "Can't we all just get along?" :lol:

ric · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:46 pm

To complain about ethanol fuels is like complaining that your old 1995 Gateway 2000 computer can't play modern computer games. Get real. If you have an old boat, guess what? It's old. It wasn't designed to last forever or to stand the test of time without ever needing adjustment or updating during it's lifespan.

Carburetor technology is not 'set and forget'. Sorry, it just isn't. If you have the impression that they are, you should have educated yourself a tad more on what you purchased. I can easily make my 3.0GS engine run on E10.. or even E85. It doesn't care. If I had an E85 gas pump close I probably would convert it to E85 it's almost a dollar cheaper.

SundayDinner · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:52 pm

OK, so I tried.

Point Number 8, upon which we all can agree, Ric is a giant douchebag.

firecadet613 · **Posted:** Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:59 pm

SundayDinner wrote:

Ric is a giant douchebag.

When do you launch?

www.iFourWinns.com

Why you should not use E-15 in your engine.....

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