www.iFourWinns.com

Sure hope someone can give an explanation as to why I'm taking on water every time the boat is in reverse. I've been attempting to locate the leak for almost a year. Finally, with the use of a video snake it's been found. When the boat is moving forward, idling or anchored, nothing enters the bilge. But, when the boat is in reverse, water gushes in just below where the exhaust passes thru the inner transom plate to the outdrive. Inspection of the exhaust bellows shows it to be intact with no cracks or tears. Watching the video shows 2-3 gallons entering the bilge when the boat is coming off the trailer, setting the anchor, backing into a slip, etc.
Any and all comments, suggestions and ideas are appreciated!

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1997 23.8 Four Winns Vista
Bay Dream'n

are you 100% sure its not coming from higher up and running down the transom assembly and then running out from the bottem. I would check to see if the transom assembly is tight, grab the drive and move it up and down and look at where it meets the transom of the boat and look for movement.
whats strange is its not leaking at rest
your exhaust boot wouldnt cause that kind of problem

I have a very slight leak coming from my upper steering pivot o-ring on the steering gimble, but it is so slight it would take a week for there to be a gallon so I will take it apart in the winter when the boat is laid up
it only leaks slightly when the stern drops lower than the normal water line so I am not sweating it because i trailer it and after every use I get in the engine bay and spray WD40 around the steering pivot to keep from coroding

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"Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes "

1996 238 Vista dlx "Casper's Toy Too"
2006 5.0GXI w/closed cooling, DP-sm 1.95 drive
Previous boat:
1998 Sundowner 205

I have a 94 238 vista and this spring I discovered I was taking on water at an alarming rate, and it was much worse in reverse (must have something to do with the torque & water directed to the transom). That said mine was obviously worse than yours because I could hear the water comming in with the engine shut down.

Turned out to be my intermediate transom seal and the motor had to come out in order to replace it properly, not what a guy wants to hear but yours is only 3 years newer than mine so the seal could be the problem, mine started life as a salt water vessel. I had a shop do my mine, pulled the motor, replaced the gasket and assured me that I'm good for another 20 years, there was no rot but it was a 22hr job for them and cost me $2700 but that included leg oil change, new impeller, trim/tilt service and relocation of my bilge pump, so the seal job itself was probably closer to $2K . considering I sleep on the thing I feel it is like peice of mind insurance......

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I treat my children well because I want the good diapers when I'm old....

4 kids, 2 dogs, 2 horses, 4 acres, an amazing wife, a boat and no time....

It's easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

I agree knowing it is sealed makes for sleeping on it a good thing.
but 2700 seems a little steep. its amazing what gets charge out there.

I am lucky I have the ability and a great shop to work in to do even that sort of thing myself. pulling a motor may seem like a huge undertaking but I dont mine the challlenge, I could get that kind of job done in 16 hours or less and that is going very slow, cleaning everything completly and having all the parts ready before hand.
once the rear seat and engine hatch is out its a breeze. Pulling the drive on a volvo is very quick and easy

_________________
"Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes "

1996 238 Vista dlx "Casper's Toy Too"
2006 5.0GXI w/closed cooling, DP-sm 1.95 drive
Previous boat:
1998 Sundowner 205

Unfortunately I'm not set up to pull a motor and just a tad mechanically retarded....I'd rather pay the pro's for that type of job...

Apparently it is not fun pulling that 5.8 from a gopher hole, he told me if it ever leaks again to bring it back to him and maybe it will catch fire in his compound.....lol....

These guys are good, they give me very detailed instruction for the self directed work I can do, have a competitive shop rate ($120 hr), and always end up at or under the quoted price (even if the quote is high I'd rather go in knowing it will be $2700 as opposed to thinking it's $2700 just to find out it's closer to $4K). The owners were mechanics at another well known marine shop and left over poor business ethics, really stand up guys...

Anyways, back to the leak.... getter figured out yet??????

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I treat my children well because I want the good diapers when I'm old....

4 kids, 2 dogs, 2 horses, 4 acres, an amazing wife, a boat and no time....

It's easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

Thanks guys for your input. I'm so glad to hear from other 23.8 owners. Neutron, this isn't running down, it actually sprays in at the bottom and the water is warm. That's what has me thinking it's something with the exhaust. Bogger, I'm praying that it's not the transom seal, but at this point I certainly wont count it out. I was looking at an OMC stern drive service manual today. There's an exhaust seal on the gimble housing. I'm wondering if that could be blown out. Saturday morning I'm taking the video to the Four Winns dealer where I get parts and service work done. Hopefully they can give me some idea whats going on. I'll also make sure to ask the dreaded question, "how much". Let you know what they say. I'm taking a couple aspirins before I go to help thwart off the heart attack.

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1997 23.8 Four Winns Vista
Bay Dream'n

If is the exhaust seal from the y-pipe then most likely the engine has to come out as well. almost impossible to get the 4 bolts out

_________________
"Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes "

1996 238 Vista dlx "Casper's Toy Too"
2006 5.0GXI w/closed cooling, DP-sm 1.95 drive
Previous boat:
1998 Sundowner 205

Yeah, I pretty much have come to realize thats the direction this is heading. Right at the top of the service manual under "Transom and Exhaust Seal Replacement" it states "Remove engine, lower exhaust pipe and steering cylinder following instructions in OMC Stern Drive Engine Removal and Installation section in the Engine Service Manual". That says it all. No easy way around it.

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1997 23.8 Four Winns Vista
Bay Dream'n

One way you could rule out the transom seal vs the exhaust seal is to get the boat out of the water, drain the bilge as much as you can and then run the engine on the water hose. If you still get water in the bilge then, the transom seal is more likely although I/Os have a lot of places where they can leak water. If I ever put a new engine in mine, one thing I am going to do is reinstall the drive with the engine still out, then make covers for the Y pipe exhaust openings and plug the raw water intake hose. Next put the plug in and back the boat into the water and look. Thats the best way to troubleshoot any transom/exhaust leak. It takes a little longer but it will tell you if the transom seal leaks, the exhaust seal, the water intake hose and even the driveshaft bellows.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

Hi LouC. I have tried to find this leak for a year. The only time it leaks is when the boat is in the water, backing up. I had muffs on the outdrive several times and the bilge stayed dry. My son suggested that I use our pressure washer around the outdrive at the transom to see if that would push water through. I'll give that a try tomorrow. Saturday I'm heading to the Four Winns dealer to show the video we shot of the water gushing in to the service manager. See what they have to say. I'm sure its not good. $$$$$$$$$$$

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1997 23.8 Four Winns Vista
Bay Dream'n

OK. It's been three weeks since we found the problem and I wanted to make sure it was solved before posting what was found. My son and I talked with the Four Winns service manager and were assured that it was probably the transom seal. On the way home we decided to take one last hard look where the gimble housing meets the transom, before taking it to the dealer. We used our pressure washer to see if we could find exactly where the water was entering the bilge. We placed the nozzle against where the two join together and traced around it. Nothing. Then my son pushed up on the outdrive and the water gushed into the bilge. Upon closer inspection I could see a 1/32" separation between the gimble housing and transom everytime he lifted up on the outdrive. He climbed into the engine compartment and located where the gimble housing studs come thru the transom plate. To our disbelief, all the nuts were loose and two were only hand tight. We torqued the three on the port side to the Four Winns recommended 20-25 ft.lbs. On the starboard side where we could only access two nuts, we torqued them to 35 ft.lbs. to compensate for the unaccessable one.
We've been out on the Chesapeake Bay the past three weekends and I'm happy to report that the bilge stayed dry. It makes perfect sense now when the transom plug was removed, why sometimes a gallon or sometimes five gallons would drain out. When the boat was in reverse, the gimble housing would separate from the transom and the seal, allowing water in. It all depended upon how many times we used reverse.
Wheeew! What a relief!

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1997 23.8 Four Winns Vista
Bay Dream'n

Wow nice feedback! I guess when the drive is in reverse, the torque of the prop turning in reverse tends to lift the drive up (makes sense if you think about it) and that momentarily broke the seal between the transom mount and the transom. Then when you shifted to forward, the torque of the prop turning in forward pushed the drive down and tightened up the seal. The issue of the exhaust tube gasket leaking only in reverse did not make sense to me. Now the fact that the transom mount bolts were loose and it changes depending if you are in forward or reverse all makes sense.

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88 Four Winns 200 Horizon
4.3 OMC Cobra-4bbl
2002 Walker Bay 10/2012 Suzuki 2.5
2008 Walker Bay 8

1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0/Selectrac
2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7 Hemi/Quadradrive II

great news

hmmm..... didnt I say just a few posts ago to check the transom assembly to see if its loose......same thing happened with mine after I got the boat. and same as you tightened the bolts and leak stopped.

_________________
"Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes "

1996 238 Vista dlx "Casper's Toy Too"
2006 5.0GXI w/closed cooling, DP-sm 1.95 drive
Previous boat:
1998 Sundowner 205

[quote="neutron"]are you 100% sure its not coming from higher up and running down the transom assembly and then running out from the bottem. I would check to see if the transom assembly is tight, grab the drive and move it up and down and look at where it meets the transom of the boat and look for movement.[/quote]

[quote="neutron"]hmmm..... didnt I say just a few posts ago to check the transom assembly to see if its loose......same thing happened with mine after I got the boat. and same as you tightened the bolts and leak stopped.[/quote]

My appologies Neutron! You were CORRECT! It was staring me right in the face the whole time. After seeing the video and knowing how much water was coming in the transom, I must have assumed it couldn't be that simple and let your suggestion go right over my head. Had I payed attention, it could have saved me a weeks worth of agravation. Thank You!

Thanks to everyone....especially Neutron, for your input. It was GREATLY appreciated!

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1997 23.8 Four Winns Vista
Bay Dream'n

no need to appologize, i was just joking around. I am truly glad you found the problem and it cost nothing to fix.

I was relieved when I found that my transom was loose and after just tightening it stopped mine as well. I had already preped for pulling the engine and had started to remove the exhaust elbows and decided to do one last check with a hose while I was in the engine compartment.

I dont know it all by all means, but there is some great people here with great advice and when someone here can give you advice to check something a simple that cost nothing but a little time, even though it seems absurd and couldnt possibly be the problem, it doent hurt to check. this site is full of great advice with people who "have been there done that"

sometimes everyone can get some good luck!

_________________
"Changes In Latitudes, Changes In Attitudes "

1996 238 Vista dlx "Casper's Toy Too"
2006 5.0GXI w/closed cooling, DP-sm 1.95 drive
Previous boat:
1998 Sundowner 205