www.iFourWinns.com

We have a 30' cruiser and we're looking to move up. All the pictures of the 338 and 358 are really nice. I'm going to have to drive to see one in person so I thought I'd ask a few questions here.

How big are the v-berths? Our current boat has a tiny bed.

Anyone have I/O versus v-drives, how does the boat handle around the dock?

Any must have options?

Thanks

Can't speak for the 338, but my 348 (same as current 358) has plenty of room in the v-berth - even when one of the kids decides to join us...

The innerspring mattress is exceptionally comfortable.

I LOVE my I/O's and wouldn't have the v-drives in fresh water mostly due to performance and economy (41 MPH topspeed, 28 MPH cruise at 3500 RPM getting 1.1 MPG). Can't comment on saltwater since I never boat there. Handling around the dock is great - the digital throttles make all the difference. The boat will almost spin around on itself. Plus, when pulling alongside a dock or another boat, the ability to turn the drives toward the dock and hit reverse is nice as it acts like a sternthruster.

As for options:

Must-haves: Flexiteek swim platform (gets hot, but is very durable and nonslip), deck sunpads, cockpit fridge, inner spring mattress, gas vapor detector, cockpit cover.

Nice-to-haves: Upgraded windlass, transom stereo remote, central vac.

I'm-glad-I-don't-haves: stainless windshield header, flexiteek cockpit, private staterooms.

I haven't commented on the nav systems as to me these are personal preference. I really wanted XM weather (rather than Sirius) so Raymarine wasn't an option for me. I had the dealer install a Garmin system - which I really like most of the time.

Either way, you cannot go wrong. These boats are really nice and FW and dealer support has been fantastic. We get comments on the style and functionality of our boat a lot.

This is my first cruiser, but my friends that also have FW cruisers tell me that they are a step up from several of the popular cruiser brands (who I won't mention here.)

Good luck in your search.

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2004 Sea Ray 420DB
Formerly: 2005 348 Vista

We have the 348 (now 358) with v-drive inboards. It's very maneuverable. It's 'pivot point' is right about at the base of the windshield. And the digital throttles make it a snap to control the engines in all docking situations. I would HATE to have to use separate throttle/shifter sticks ever again.

I could see where the sterndrives would be nice to have. But for us, here in saltwater on the Chesapeake I prefer having just prop and shafts in the water, not whole I/O assemblies. The sterndrive setup is a little faster and slightly more fuel efficient. But don't kid yourself, the fuel dock is not going to be significantly less. I had a boat some years ago with I/O and just didn't want to repeat the maintenance (and sinking) headaches. In fresh water, yeah, I'd consider I/O's again.

I'm 6'4" and 250lbs and the 358's forward berth (with optional inner spring mattress) is great. I've slept on it most weekends during the season.

Likewise the interior cabin and the head are generous enough to let me move about quite easily. I've slept on the mid-cabin bed too. It's a full double-bed sized berth. I put a visco-elastic mattress topper over the cushion inserts and then just use regular full sheets on it.

I wouldn't dismiss the forward stateroom berth, we have it and it's nice. I probably would NOT get the mid-cabin stateroom option as I think it would make the cabin feel too small. But the forward one is great for a bit of added privacy when you have guests along. Now, I support you could get the mid-cabin wall and NOT the forward one. Then you'd have a 'room' that would help hide all the crap that normally gets stowed in the mid-cabin.

I would also hate to have Flexi-teek on the cockpit floor. It gets WAY TOO HOT on the swim platform, I can't imagine the misery it'd cause to have it in the cockpit too. It does provide excellent non-skid for the platform, but OUCH does it get hot in the sun.

I don't have the stainless windshield setup either. Why avoid it? Besides the added cost, of course. The standard powder coated frame has held up quite well and looks fine.

Ours came with a C-80 Raymarine chartplotter (and autopilot) and I upgraded it to an E-80 (to get weather, chart and networking options). Now that the C-80 can do weather it might be worth considering. The E-series are slightly faster (so I'm told) and support more chart detail. But I never, ever use the 3D chart features. The E-series have a few more benefits but that's something for another thread. I like what I see on the Garmin demos but a friend has a 5208 (I think) new one with touchscreen and I really don't like it. When bouncing along on the waves, or in bad weather, I MUCH prefer having hard buttons instead of a touchscreen. It's just too much hassle trying to tap, tap, double-tap in the right places.

I also agree, the other options are likewise must and nice-to haves.

I've seen a 338 at a boat show and liked what I saw. It wasn't available when we were shopping. We might well have considered it.

Where are you going to be boating?

As a side note, c'mon folks, update your profiles with a location, it makes it easier for folks to offer fresh/saltwater and other local advice!

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I'll assume you are going to slip the boat. If it were me, I'd wait another year. Why...because Volvo has a new IPS system for gas engines.

Click HERE for the story.

They should be less maintenance that inboards, offer more room to the cabin and make docking a breeze...not to mention you will be the coolest boat on the docks

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Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Thanks, for the advice so far.

I boat in NH on lake Winnipesaukee. The 338 may be out. Reading through the options online, I can't get a generator with the gray water system. Gray water discharge is prohibited on NH lakes.

All my research shows that v-drives are slower and burn more gas than I/O and since I'm in fresh water I/O seem attractive. But everyone tells me that docking is so much easier with v-drives. I'm not sure about waiting for gas IPS, they don't offer IPS on the 358 now.

My trouble now is seeing one, the two Four Winns dealers near the lake don't stock boats ths big. They will order me one and service it, but I hate to spend this kind on money without seeing and riding in one.

How much do you need the genset? They are nice to have. But unless you'd be needing to run air conditioning or cook with the electric stove there's not much else you'd be using it for. I find we only run ours when it's VERY hot at night (for AC), to make coffee in the morning and to run the blender for Margaritas. Other than the AC, the coffee and the blender could actually be run off an inverter from the batteries. I only point this out because you are a bit farther north and wonder about how often you'd really need the AC. Not trying to talk you out of it, just raising the possibility.

In a boat this big you pretty much TRIPLE your fuel burn rate to run it at top speed. At cruise it's not all that much different between the two drive systems. If you're ordering the boat new then it doesn't matter. But in our case there was a 348 with exactly what we wanted already in dealer stock (and cheaper as a left-over too). The fact that I also despise the hassles of sterndrives in saltwater just made it all that much easier. But that's just me...

Going with IPS requires a whole new hull and engine compartment design. I'm not sure FW would be ready to spend that much money/engineering effort right now. Seeing as how they 378 is getting a bit long in the tooth, design-wise, I'd bet on that getting a re-do first. That and they've just gotten the 458 under way. Now, if they offered a 338 or 358 with diesel IPS, at a REASONABLE price (comparable to gas) then they'd REALLY have a winner on their hands.

If you were in the Annapolis area I'd be glad to take you for a spin. Ask the dealer and Four Winns to find out if there's a local 348/358 owner that would be willing to take a look at their boat.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

If I had I/O's with standard cable shifters, I would probably believe that v-drives are much more maneuverable. I have probably 10 hours driving v-drives and I think they do initially seem better around docks as the pivot point is closer to the middle of the boat. With the Teleflex shifter/throttles, I think the difference is much less as you get a better sense of touch.

All that said, I am very comfortable driving my I/O's - even on windy days in tight quarters - and as I mentioned earlier, I like the ability to turn the wheel toward the dock (or other boat when rafting) and hit reverse to tuck the stern in. This is effectively the way IPS works - albeit on a much more limited basis.

I/O's are a little more maintenance due to having to haul the boat to change the outdrive lube, but that to me is not much of a big deal. Many of my friends with v-drives put up with a lot more in terms of vibrations due to things hitting the shafts and props - the props seem much better protected in I/O setups. I really don't want to get into a religious war over v-drive vs. I/O since it has been debated everywhere ad nauseum. But, when I was buying the boat, I was adamant about getting V-drives and ended up settling for I/O's because my wife absolutely wanted the 348V and the FW dealer advised me against v-drives (so did the Cruisers Yachts dealer fwiw). Now after having I/O's I wouldn't consider going to v's. Several magazines have done I/O vs. v-drive shootouts in the last two years. Do a search if you're interested - or better yet, go drive both and decide for yourself.

As for the stainless header, I don't like it for one major reason - glare. Sea Ray and others have a stainless windshield option - which is about $4000. It includes the ENTIRE frame - which really looks nice and beefy. FW simply sticks a stainless cover over the top of the otherwise painted frame. To me it looks like something that was purchased aftermarket and stuck on. Not worth the $$ or glare.

My $.02...

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2004 Sea Ray 420DB
Formerly: 2005 348 Vista

Ah, I've never seen the stainless option in person. It doesn't much sound like it's worth it. Two years running and the powder-coating frame still looks new.

Well, when dealing with the slime and barnacles that are prevalent in a saltwater environment it's much, MUCH easier to maintain v-drives. Just the sheer number of cracks and crevices on a sterndrive are the problem. Properly balanced and aligned props and shafts pretty much eliminate vibration. It's not hard to do, once you learn how, but I've seen at least one dealer that doesn't know how...

But since the guy's looking for a freshwater boat that's less of an issue.

I agree that with the digital throttle/shifter controls it's a lot easier to maneuver either kind of drive system. You pretty quickly get used to where your own boat has it's turning moments. It's the 'getting used to' that can be unnerving. It really helps to find a little-used dock for doing some practice. During the week, early in the day, not a holiday, just any time there's not going to be a lot of other boats or an audience around.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I agree with what everyone said about how the 348 handle around the docks. It is a great boat. Just wanted to add. If you are able to make it to Lake Raystown in PA. I would be glad to show you around ours. Just drop us a E-mail.

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348 Vista ( Last Call )
Raystown PA

I'm hoping to hear there will be a 358 at the Boston Boat show next week. Thanks to all who offered tours and rides, that's very generous and trusting.

I pretty sure the generator is mandatory with the wife. We don't have one now and more than a few times she wanted one. I'd probably be able to get away with an inverter to run the microwave, but she really wants air conditioning.

There's actually a pretty small difference in price between a 338 and a 358. The 378 is a big jump but it won't fit in my slip anyway.

Right now the other contenders are the Chap 350 and the new Searay 330. The SR 340, Cruisers 340 and 330, Monterrey 350, Larson 350 and Rinkers seem to be out now because of something one of us doesn't like.

The one nice thing with our 348 is the walk way around the boat. It is a little bigger then most. Also you can get on it from the back very easy.

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348 Vista ( Last Call )
Raystown PA

I have been using my 07 338 Vista every weekend this entire summer. It is a great boat.

Engine: I chose the 5.7L 280hp Volvo. The difference between the 320 and the 280 is minimal. There is 1mph extra on the top end. I never spend the fuel to drive any amount of time at full throttle. Both engines cruise at 28-30mph @ 3500 rpm. The $5K extra cost is not worth it.

Outdrives: I chose the Ocean Series stern drives. I do keep my boat in saltwater.

The engines/drives have run absolutely perfect. They used a little oil during break-in (expected). They have not used a drop since the 20hr check. I am now at 60hrs.

Handling: It took a few lessons and some practice but around the docks the drives and electronic throttle are great.

Genset: I did not get one. I know that we are not going to spend any nights away from a marina without power. The genset is a big purchase cost, a continual maintenance cost, and very little used for most people. I have not once this summer wished I had power while relaxing on the hook with family and friends.

Flexteek: I did not get it because I intend to bring this boat to Florida. Flexteek is very hot in the sun and also is a maintenance issue in the hot Florida sun. In NH it may be a nice addition to your boat. It does look very nice.

Mattress: I chose the innerspring mattress. We put a topper on the mattress and it is very comfortable. We have spent over 60 nites on the boat.

Windllass: Excellent option. It takes a little practice to use it properly.

Sunpads: Nice option. Check the stitching. Ours needed to be re-stitched out of the box.

Stainless Header: I chose it and it does look nice.

Private staterooms: I like the open feeling without walls and did not opt for it.

Cockpit refrigerator: Opt for this instead of an ice maker. The extra refrigerator space is great.

Nav package: I chose the Raymarine C80 after talking with the Raymarine people at a boat show. I really like using it.

If you want to see a new 338, I know that there will be a new one at the Norwalk, CT boat show this weekend.

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07 Tiara Sovran 4300
07 338 Vista - SOLD

All I know is if I was ordering a brand new cruiser.. I'd pony up and go Diesels with IPS.. (if available)



(It's not my money, sure is easy to spend someone else's!)

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Brett DiMichele

Diesel and IPS would be great but IPS is only available on boats too big for my slip. Plus diesel is hard to find on the lake.

The good new is that a Four Winns 358 and a Chapparel 350 will both be at the Boston In-water boat show. I'm still leaning toward the FW but she really likes the wood floors in the Chappy cabin.

There is a wood floor insert option on the four winns. If I were ordering a new boat this would be an option I'd get. If I ever have to replace the carpet it would also be an option I'd add. I've got the carpet and it's held up quite well. I've had it out of the boat for cleaning and I'd certainly agree it's 'less than pretty' to have just bare floor. But I'd definitely prefer carpet over flooring, for two reasons. One being comfort and the other being noise. When the carpet was out it was definitely 'less quiet' when sleeping in the cabin. The heavy rubber backing on the carpet really helps deaden the noise.

I've not been in a recent Chap 350, but in looking at their virtual tour website pictures and movies the first thing that comes to my attention is storage space, or lack there-of. You never have enough room to stow everything. I can tell you my wife would be seriously displeased if she had to give up the various cabinets we've got in the 348. There appears to be NO storage in the mid-cabin. The 350 just doesn't look like it has anywhere near the same interior storage capacities.

That wood floor looks nice, but that raised table stand in the floor sure looks like a toe-stubber. Once again, there's not much storage in the main cabin either. But the table and seating does look a little more useful than the 348's rather straight bench seat. But just how are you supposed to watch that TV all the way back in the mid-cabin? Doesn't look like you can see it at all from the sofa.

The head is a throw-back to the 90's. Even SeaRay is copying FW with their new bathrooms. Guests really seem impressed with how nice the head looks in the FW. I like that it doesn't have a curtain to get all moldy. The lexan panels and walls in the 348 just swipe clean with a squeegee and you're done. Granted, they do have a corian insert on the top of the sink, but the rest of it is pretty bland.

But hey, any boat is great and one the wife is happy with is certainly important. Just make sure the happiness isn't short-lived based on just the flooring.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista