www.iFourWinns.com

I'm looking at adding another AC vent and ductwork behind the galley and place a vent on the forward end of the cabinetry, as far forward as possible.

Has anyone ever had their galley apart? I have drawings but it's inconclusive as to the space (to me).

Anyone with experience?

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SOLD! 2006 30th Anniversary Vista 278
"Conch'd Out!"

http://vista278.com

I've had the cabinetry in our 348 apart. That's not the same as yours, of course. When I pulled the refrigerator there was complete access to nearly all of the space behind the cabinets. The drawers are in boxes, pulling them doesn't give you access all the way back to the hull.

Bear in mind that the fridge depends on convection to keep it cool enough to operate properly. If you decide to do anything with the space behind it make SURE you're not impairing how the fridge airflow works. On the 348 there's a port hole on the starboard hull. Just below that there's an open slot. It's important NOT TO BLOCK this slot as that would impair the convection.

Pullng the fridge is easy. There are usually just a few screws holding it to the cabinet. The screws are usually covered, use a slim flat-blade screwdriver to pop off the covers. The door comes off by removing the hinge bolt at the top (a small crescent wrench works here). If the fridge is low in the cabinet (most are) it's likely the back of it will be L-shaped. So when you remove it you want to be CAREFUL not to let it suddenly tilt backwards. It's best to do this with an empty fridge. Just slide it out of the cabinet but keep a firm hand on it. There should be enough wire to let you pull it out. Then just unplug the AC line and the DC wiring.

See if that gives you an idea what's possible with ducting.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I nominate wkearney99 as ADMIRAL OF THE FLEET. He knows everything! This board would be dumb without him.

All in favor?

Opposed?

The ayes have it!

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2006 348 Vista
"some days you're the bug and some days you're the windshield"

Heh, I'd almost prefer NOT to know as much as circumstances have forced me to. But when you're faced with a challenge, well, sometimes you just have to to learn a few things. I'm just grateful fellow FW owners have been kind enough to share their experiences too. We're all in the same (brand) boat, right? (pun intended!)

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

I agree, I nominate him as well. I'm thinking you could make a killing as a consultant!

There's a bit more to this story, but I'll leave it at this for now. I'll pull the fridge and see what's back there. My dealer has had it out for installing vibration dampning about a half dozen times now.

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SOLD! 2006 30th Anniversary Vista 278
"Conch'd Out!"

http://vista278.com

I am looking at a similar thing on our 258. Let me know what you find. I was also considering moving the vent in the mid berth to the left side of the air intake and if I can't get something forward, adding another vent below the stair area. That area is wide open and a clear shot back to the AC unit. Seems like FW should consider making at least 3 vents standard. Although we can cool our boat just fine, I would like the ability to adjust where the ait comes from.

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Jnizi

2007 Vista 338 "Better Yet"
Previously:
2007 Vista 258 " Just Right"
2005 Horizon 230

I looked at the pictures of the 278 on the FW website, along with the 258's VR movie and the owners manual. Where is the AC vent located now? From what I can tell the AC unit is tucked back in the mid-cabin, correct? The locator manual shows a gray water tank sort of located in-between the AC unit and the galley? It might be pretty tight in there. Then there's the question of where would you put the output grille? On the 348 they run an AC line through the ceiling to the head. It appears to be a 3" hose, it's insulated. But it really doesn't put out much air into the head. When I was poking around inside behind the electrical panel (to install the sat weather and other networking gear) I noticed the AC vent hoses really aren't suspended as well as I'd like. They tend to droop a bit, almost enough to reduce the air flow. So make sure your existing vent hoses are at least working properly and not pinched. That said, the forward vent in the 348 runs behind the sofa (through an area with a HUGE amount of wasted space) and it's gotta be a 6" hose. The grille for it in the forward berth doesn't seem large. But I think with AC, the longer you run hoses the wider they should be. So considering these factors, I'm not sure if there's going to be enough room to run a big enough hose. I mean, SOME additional airflow might be nice, but I don't know if it'd be enough to justify the cost and hassle of doing it.

I'd start by looking for where you plan on putting the output grille. Then try and find an effective route for at least a 4" insulated hose.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Here are the drawings FW kindly sent me.

http://www.twowheelforum.com/vista/1.pdf
http://www.twowheelforum.com/vista/2.pdf
http://www.twowheelforum.com/vista/3.pdf

I know what you're saying regarding the gray water tank, though I don't have a gray water system so I'm assuming it's clear.

The mid cabin vent is about 6" from the return. I'd like to locate the third duct forward in the VBerth and have the option to close the mid cabin vent.

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SOLD! 2006 30th Anniversary Vista 278
"Conch'd Out!"

http://vista278.com

Ok, in PDF 3 (the one with the color pictures) what does that grille up top provide? Is it an intake or outlet for the AC?

Looking at PDF 1 (the line drawing showing the back of the cabinets) it looks a lot like the 348. The drawers are in a 'box' and there's space behind it; close at the bottom and leaving more room as the hull slopes out behind it. The fridge is probably setup with a stepped back to it so there will be room behind it too. Just make sure not to block the airflow too much.

I'm just not sure where you're put the grille. On our 348 it's located about 12" down from the ceiling on the side of a cabinet facing the forward berth. On yours it looks like the microwave would be blocking using that location on the bed. Or you'd lose storage space inside the cabinets just behind the sink. I don't think you could put it on the base of the cabinet because the mattress or bed linens would end up blocking it. While there's probably room to pull a hose all the way forward using the storage space under the seating, there doesn't really appear to be a good place to put a grille.

So what're you really after here? If the system isn't cooling enough then adding another vents won't help. If all you want is to move the air around a bit then consider getting a couple of 12vdc fans. I picked up a couple of cheapie ones with clip-on bases. For when it's really hot and the AC hasn't quite cooled the cabin down yet they come in handy.

WARNING, some of the cheap fans have a speed control that can get very hot and overheat. AVOID these. Or only use it in it's highest speed setting. Better quality fans won't present this risk. But I've seen some of these cheap ones get hot enough to melt that little in-line speed control box.

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

The grill in PDF3 is the farther forward vent blwing cool air. It's sandwiched between the sloping roof and top of the galley cabinets. There is little place for the air flow due to the restrictive size of the are where it comes out.

If losing a little cabinet space was all it took to route some air into the V-Berth, then that's what I'd be willing to sacrifice. We need air in the front of the boat, that's the problem.

We did buy two clip on fans and they made it bearable. In fact we were able to go down to using only one when the AC unit was replaced; but, we still needed it. There is just not enough airflow in the forward cabin.

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SOLD! 2006 30th Anniversary Vista 278
"Conch'd Out!"

http://vista278.com

And that space up there is just empty? The air just dumps out onto that shelf and is expected to flow effective from there? Hmmm, well, I've seen worse I suppose.

That shelf, such as it is, looks small enough that perhaps you could use the space to 'extend' the existing hose/vent. Perhaps make a wood panel that sat upright on the shelf and then run the hose farther forward. If there's not enough room at the forward end then dip the hose down into the cabinet, behind the top rear edge of the microwave and out the side through a new grille. But I have no idea if there's enough (or any) clearance behind the microwave to do this.

But then you'd be depriving the main cabin of air. So maybe it'd be possible to put a closable 'inline' grille on the upright panel. Sort of 'tee' off the hose. Then you'd be able to close the forward vent to allow the 'tee' to dump air from near the existing location.

But I have no experience with boating HVAC systems so I couldn't begin to suggest who would make such parts.

Your other alternative, to run under/behind the cabinet, would require bringing the vent back up to a point where it would exhaust above the bed linens. This would require a 90 degree turn in the hose. Keep in mind with HVAC systems that the longer you run the hose isn't the only problem. Bends in the hose result in lost airflow. You could perhaps bring the hose up inside the forward corner of the double-door cabinet up behind the sink (below the microwave). Just built an L-shaped panel to hide it. I'd wonder if someone makes a 90 degree exhaust grille. One that would let you bring the hose up from the bottom and let the grille itself handle the bend. Otherwise you'd have either too tight a bend in the hose, or lose a lot more of the back of that cabinet to bring it up from below at a shallower angle.

The only other idea that occurs to me would be to somehow bring the air all the way forward to the bow end of the berth. There's room in the storage area that could accommodate a hose. Trouble is I can't imagine a way to bring the air up from there and out. I'm not sure that having a vent up near your head would be all that comfortable either. To say nothing of the airflow problems of a vent hose being that much longer.

So here's a thought, how about rigging up a test of some kind? Get some hose and attach it to the existing grille. Then run the outlet of that hose to the top end of the cabinet, for one test. Then try it snaked along the countertop and pointed from a height near that double-door cabinet. The bend coming down from shelf, along the counter, might closely match the same sort of bends necessary to come UP through the cabinet, out the side. See if either of them offer an improvement. It won't be "pretty looking" but it'd certainly be better than hacking it apart and not getting decent results!

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

This could be near impossible. RI ran a vent off the distribution box in my 248 Vista to the aft cabin as one only went into the main cabin. Event that was difficult.

Take out the refrig and see what you can see construction-wise with the cabinets. FW, as with many builders builds the cabinets as a module and than installed it in the boat. Quick and easy for them but damn near impssible to access afterwards. I've had to cut access holes in the cabinet on the starboard side of my 288 VIsta simply because the wiring harness is so tightly bundles and cable tied the main electrical panel was near impossible to get behind. Same with the dealer and installing the new tank monitor system.

The only option you may find is Bill's suggestion of building out the cabinet top and channeling the air further forward.

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Jvalich
http://www.badcock.com

'04 FW 288 Vista "Mental Floss"

Ok, I finally got around to checking this out. I actually removed the first step and that allowed me to see everything I needed. There is no gray water tank, so there is a lot space in there. I took many photos:

The step removed:

Bigger pic here

Here's the camera inserted in the step facing right in the above pic, toward the front of the boat and the galley. The coils are behind the fridge. You can see the dampening material my dealer used to cut down on vibration (another problem):

Bigger pic here

Same view, looking up showing the inside of the forward part of the cabinet:

Bigger pic here

This shot is directly below the breaker panel, trash can removed. You can see the existing duct the blows above the galley cabinet immediately right of the breaker panel.

Bigger pic here

Same view as aboive, camera inserted in the space:

Bigger pic here

Same spot looking down, this is the trash can door below the breaker panel. The two images above are this same spot looking left. Lots of room to cut a hole and access below the step, which is all under this false floor.

Bigger pic here

My proposal is to T off the existing line in the above photos, cut a hole through the false floor above, run the duct in the empty space behind the fridge in the first few images, up into the small storage cabinet under the microwave:

Bigger pic here

The vent would mount behind where the clip-on fan is located in this photo, only sacrificing a small amount of space in the cabinet (door openin this pic):

Bigger pic here


Here is a movie of what I'm thinking. The quality is greatly diminished, but with the above images you'll get the idea. Ignore my narration.

_________________
SOLD! 2006 30th Anniversary Vista 278
"Conch'd Out!"

http://vista278.com

Great Job with the pictures and video. Definitely looks "DoAble" (Is that a word? Should be!) Good Luck with that!

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'04 FW 268Vista "Andiamo"

Don't know if there's enough clearance to go behind the trashcan and into thebilge that way. How about just going under the trashcan floor entirely? Is there enough clearance in the bilge? I'd worry that going behind the trashcan would interfere with closing it properly. Not to mention wear/tear and garbage getting on the hose.

How are you coming up and out into the forward cabin? The link for that last picture doesn't work.

Nice job on that video! How about adding one that discusses the way you plan on bringing it up and through the cabinet?

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-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista