www.iFourWinns.com

I'm a family man but we don't have kids...just me, my wife, and our boat ladder climbing border collie. We like to camp on the boat though. Mostly just weekends and long weekends...if I was retired it would be for weeks though.

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Now Looking for Cruiser
2001 Chevy Silverado 2500 diesel (my pull vehicle)
Previous:
1999 28' Adventure Craft
2008 24' Sun Tracker Party Barge 24 Signiture
1997 14.5' Sea Doo Speedster with twin motors (whiplash)
1995 Sea Doo XP

2005+ 260 is a completely different boat, cockpit seating, cabin, galley, hull, just about everything. It also gained a lot of weight (~1500lbs), some say it was beefing up the hull to get some kind of offshore rating but I havent been able to verify that. It is heavy though, my 8800lb lift barely get sit up with full tanks.

I'm 6'4 and 225 and could sleep in the mid berth, in 2005 they made it less coffin like and in 2007 they changed the cabin steps to a more open arrangement which helps make it more open feeling. The 278 mid berth is more open for sure, I cant stretch all the way out in either but the wife and I sleep in the V-berth with a pillow top cover on it, kids stay in the mid berth. It gets pretty hot/humid here but I dont run the generator when we sleep. Oddly enough its quieter in the mid berth even though the generator is right up against that bulkhead

I can also stand straight up in the cabin, not so in the 248 or 278, for sure the head has more height in the FW but the FW I couldnt close the door when sitting on the head - I have long legs.

Myself I liked the SR sliding cabin door better than the 248/278 sliding top/swing door. I'm a big guy and the big slider is much more roomy for me to get in and out of the cabin and I never forget to slide open the top, I hit my head quite a few times on the top sliding door on the 248 (same with the 278 I assume) BUT I did like the FW screen door even though its somewhat fragile.

Not sure what is under the glued in carpet but its probably rough glassed over plywood where the four winns is a molded insert. The snap in canvas runners were kind of odd to me as well but it works well and its easy to clean up. The carpet itself is pretty tough and mine shows no wear at all but sooner or later its going to wear I guess.

Quite a few other little things, when I was buying if they were both priced exactly the same it would have made the decision tougher. The 278 was freshwater, the 260 had some saltwater use. The '07 260 had 150 hours and the '08 FW had 250, not a big difference since I put 150-200 hours a season on a boat. But I was able to buy the 260 for 10K less than the FW and it also came with an aluminum trailer to boot, plus it had a new drive put on in 2010 and it had all the service records, the FW had none.

Anyhow, looking is the fun part, like I said plenty out there for sale, the thrill is in the hunt for me when boat buying.

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2006 Vista 248 5.7DP - SOLD
2011 Crownline E6 - SOLD
2007 Sea Ray 260 Sundancer

We owned a 268 Vista for 6 years, and it was a great boat for us. My feelings about the Sea Ray 260 have been covered by bliss36. They have made improvements in recent years that have helped. Buying any boat can be a compromise, no boat has every feature that you would like, so shopping around, comparing different brands/models is crucial when you make a commitment to purchasing a small cruiser.



Good Luck and enjoy your search !

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

You have to be real careful with the bravo III drives, salt water or not, lot of corrosion issues. The part under the props, bearing carrier, is a known trouble spot. I believe in 2002 they went to a coated carrier and they dont melt away as quick, my drive has never been in salt water and was brand new in 2010 and the bearing carrier has a coupe spots eating away - its just a lot of stainless and a lot of aluminum. If the boat was on a lift or trailered its not that bad usually, but the proper anodes and functional mercathode are a must if its sitting in the water.

Myself I prefer the port lounger to the double helm seat, that way my wife and both kids can sit up front. Any of these smaller single engine cruisers are pretty loud on plane and sitting in the back is a little noisy for most. For being anchored the sea ray single level cockpit seating is great when you have a few people aboard, its nice for being able to spin around the helm seat and be part of the group. Plus there is a lot of room to move around in the cockpit, the 278 with the table is pretty cramped. Another thing is the upholstery, Four Winns material is bulletproof, but its not the most comfortable material out there. The Crownline I recently sold had some of the nicest, softest vinyl I ever sat on. Bu it also scratches and gouges pretty easy, the Sea Ray is in between, fairly tough yet not as stiff as the Four Winns material. Like I said lot of little things to consider, kids/dog the FW material will last forever but not quite as comfortable.

Another thing to consider is storage, that was my number one complaint on the 248, the 278 wasnt much better. This 05+ 260 is great as far as that goes, having a big mid-berth is awesome - except if it has to be used as a storage compartment. There is a lot of stuff crammed in these small boats and storage is a premium, the more the better..

I'm not trying to sell you on a Sea Ray, they have their share of problems like anyone else. I looked at a couple Regals and Crownlines as well, I wasnt impressed with either of them. Also dont be afraid to climb around the bilge and look at access to everything, its a boat and sooner or later mostly everything will need to be fixed so make sure you can at least see and get to things like the trim pump, tab pump, drains, sea cocks and strainers, batteries etc. Same with the generator, I can change the oil, impeller and spark plugs in less than an hour (no sound shield), some arent quite that easy. Of course if you pay someone to fix it thats not a big issue, but I do everything on the boat myself.

There are a lot of nice boats out there but unless I can go look at it a couple times, do a compression test myself and sea trial it with no time pressure I wont buy it. Been through the out of state boat thing and screw that with a 8000+ lb cruiser/trailer. Since Sea Rays and Four Winns are the most popular cruisers around here in my price range and have some REAL dealer support I kind of narrowed it down to those two. Sea Rays are very popular here since they are made here, its at least 3-1 sea ray against everything else as far as cruisers. I like a lot of other things on other boats and it would be nice to have access to all of them when buying to make a decision but I dont have the time to look around 200 miles out of state.

kp47, just curious. You had a Stingray in 2010, bought the 248 in fall of 2010, sold it in fall of 2011, bought the Crownline E6 in fall of 2011 and now here we are in the fall of 2012 and you now are back into a cruiser, but this time in a 260DA. Why all the jumping back and forth ? Nervous twitch? Or impulse buyer? You have seemingly learned an awful lot about your boats' in your limited time of ownership, I commend you for that.
We usually keep our boats for 5 to9 years, except the 282, which we kept for only two seasons. Current boat will likely be still ours when I have a grabber in the next 10 years or so.

Sorry for the sidetrack MotorMike, inquiring minds like mine want to know.

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One of 4 Previous (Sold) Boats:
2000 Four Winns 268 Vista

Current Boat: 2004 Chaparral 235 ssi cuddy

Cap'n "Columbo" Morgan: "Just one more question, sir..."

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"Knot Easy" 2000 Horizon 240 Volvo 5.7GS /SX
tow: 2017 Honda PILOT EXL-AWD
prev. boats:
'87 Chaparral 198CXL 4.3 OMC Cobra
'69 Jetstar 16ft Ski Boat, 115hp Yamaha
'68 Aluminum Jon Boat, 3hp Sears
'64 Water Wings

I have been boating on and off for 30 years and have gone through about 20 boats from 34 to 18 feet.

Why?

Because I can I guess, I dont fall in love with these things I use them and move on when I get bored or annoyed.

Recent history is I moved here from Chicago 10 years ago and bought a new FW 180 in 2008, I boated on Lake Michigan prior and swore I would never own another boat when I moved here and kept that pledge for 7 years, but my wife talked me into the little FW. Well after owning a 34' Sea Ray in Chicago prior the little 180 lasted about 3 months, then I picked up the Stingray 225LR, fast boat but kinda cheap and my back couldnt take it on the TN river. Then went into the FW 248 because the kids wanted to overnight, I liked it but everyone was crying they wanted to ride in the bow again, so I bought a large bowrider/deck boat and sold the 248. I hated the E6 from a couple weeks after I owned it, not a very well built boat and not a very well run comapny. The good thing was I bought it for 1/2 of MSRP so I was able to get what I paid for it after nine months and 100 hours and then picked up the 260 at a great deal. Every boat I bought was at a pretty good deal so I didnt do too bad on them when I sold/traded them. Certainly didnt make any money on them but I put 200 hours on the 248, 175 on the Stingray, 100 on the E6 and already put 70 on the 260.

As far as learning a lot about them when you do everything yourself and have been doing it a long time it just kind of comes with the territory. There is nothing I cant do on a boat from electrical to fiberglass to mechanical.

My guess is this 260 will be here for at least a couple years, its a nice boat, not a 'perfect' boat but its well put together and does everything I want it to do. I originally wanted a newer 258 FW, I liked the 248 and almost bought my old one back but really wanted a generator and hated the engine hatch silliness, but I figured if I was going to make another move I'd go with a 28 instead of a 26 since the money isnt that much different used.

I also have six cars but I wont get into that..

Enough info or you want my SSN and DOB as well

I will say one thing!! If you even think that the new boat could be too small for your needs. DON'T BUY IT!! Get the bigger one. In the long run, it will be cheaper!!

KP47 is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to boats...I have a ton of knowledge with dirt bikes like KP has with boats...I've been dirtbiking for about 30 years and had about 20 of them. I'm learning and with the cruisers there is definetly a lot more to learn. I work on my own stuff also so from a maintenance standpoint that is important for me to be able to easily work on the stuff that breaks...and cruisers have a whole lot of stuff in that engine compartment.

Here in Arizona there are a lot of high performance boats and its easy to find one of those in mint condition...but most of the cruisers seem like they have been really neglected...I guess its typically a different type of person that owns a cruiser verse a high performance boat. I'm a man of function and I want to sleep in my boat in comfort.

KP...I think I will be pulling props off on the future boat if it has a bravo 3 so I can look at that casing. I was kinda shocked when I saw it on the SR. So you go as far as doing a compression test...wow. I have a compression tester, but they might think I'm crazy if I start pulling spark plugs out. We have learned to look under all the seats cushions in the cabin thats for sure...as we found water under some of them. Even found water under the seat in the mid birth on a well craft. As soon as my wife sees that she's done with the boat and doesn't even want to look at it anymore. She wants a dry cabin...and so do I to be honest...nothing worse then your stuff getting wet in what is supposed to be a dry storage compartment.

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Now Looking for Cruiser
2001 Chevy Silverado 2500 diesel (my pull vehicle)
Previous:
1999 28' Adventure Craft
2008 24' Sun Tracker Party Barge 24 Signiture
1997 14.5' Sea Doo Speedster with twin motors (whiplash)
1995 Sea Doo XP

I'm no boat expert, just a hobbyist, I built race cars for a living though (retired now) and an engine is an engine and a drive is no different then a transmission, main difference is cars usually dont sink or float away if they quit running

Any honest seller will let you do a compression test if you are a serious buyer or do it for you, I use a starter button and either hook it up on the starter or the relay, takes less than an hour. If not its pretty easy to spot a misfire on a sea trial, one dead cylinder and performance really drops off, especially on a heavy cruiser with a small engine. Plus looking at the breather hose by the flame arrester/air filer can tell a lot, if there is oil dripping off it I would at least pull the plugs and have a look.

I also drain a little oil from the drive and check for water, go around the whole engine/inner transom with a borescope and look under everything for water. This boat I knew it had some water coming in from the rear somewhere when in the water and used that to negotiate with. Was hoping it was something simple like a freshwater fitting or shift cable bellows (noticed the hot water heater fittings leaking) but I ended up changing a rusty upper swivel shaft/seal (thats what was leaking), gimbal bearing, all bellows, upper and lower gimbal bushings, intake hose etc. A shop would have charged over 2 grand for all that, cost me about 650 in parts but now its good for 5 or more years and I have a bone dry bilge.

Neglected boats are common here as well, especially if they sit on a dealer lot for years, I've looked at some real junks. This 260 was pretty rough when I first seen it and almost passed it over, it had been sitting outside on a dealer lot for a while and the longer they sit the worse they look. But it had low hours, all the options I wanted, and was priced to sell to start with. Hull was decent, engine was strong, had a new drive, bilge was super clean, cabin was spotless and no signs of water despite sitting out in the open for a long time, cockpit was nice except for needing a lot of cleanup and it had service records.

I refuse to have a 'wet' boat as well, my 248 was a little moldy in the mid cabin when I got it, the AC condensate pan drain hose was ran uphill and the pan would fill up at the dock and dump out when the boat was used. Easy fix but it was like that since new and hard to believe no one ever fixed it. Problem is stuff like that is not obvious when you buy it, you can hire a surveyor but they dont catch everything either. Thats why i prefer to buy local, it limits my selection but I can go look at it a few times before I buy. New boats I tend to impulse buy though

Great info kp. Your right on the draining some oil on the drive. My last boat I bought when I drained the outdrive a bunch of water came out. I was not happy about that.

Now the seller of the SR wants me to pay for the boat before the sea trail and if there is anything wrong he will fix it. I don't like that option much and I think its a deal breaker.

Also, at the bottom of the engine compartment of the sea ray right in front of the engine in the very center...the gel coat has bubbled or blistered and cracked. I wonder if oil leaking caused it or water sitting in the engine compartment or combination of both.

I didn't know to check for oil at the breather hose. Definitely pay attention to that now.

I agree about being able to look at the boat a few times before I buy it...unless its in pristine condition. There is this 2002 SR 280 loaded with all options with twin 5.0 liters motors. It has 400 hours(250 hours on genset) on it but he wants premium...got him down to $54k. Seems like more hours then I would like on the motors. Its so nice though I want it but my wife doesn't want to spend that much on it.

I'm excited to go look at the FW tomorrow though.

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Now Looking for Cruiser
2001 Chevy Silverado 2500 diesel (my pull vehicle)
Previous:
1999 28' Adventure Craft
2008 24' Sun Tracker Party Barge 24 Signiture
1997 14.5' Sea Doo Speedster with twin motors (whiplash)
1995 Sea Doo XP

I second this advice. Go steal you a 318 Vista or a 300 Sundancer. You will never see a market like this again (at least I hope).

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Current Boat: 2000 Four Winns 298 Vista
Previous Boat: 2000 Carver 406MY

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If you dont like the SR pass on it, who knows what caused the gelcoat bubbling in the bilge and to be honest if it was used in saltwater I'd hold out for a freshwater boat anyhow.

400 hours isnt much, at least to me, you can have trashed boats with 100 hours on them so I would look at overall condition before the hour meter. Some people buy them new and run them with zero maintenance for years until they stop and get rid of them when they realize what it costs to fix it. Others use them and maintain them well..

Sometimes you have to pay a little premium to get a clean one, cost of parts is ridiculous no matter what the brand so the less that has to be replaced the better.

Nothing wrong with a wider beam twin engine boat, but just remember twice the engine and drive maintenance, lose the ability to trailer unless you have at least a 3/4 ton and permits - or pay someone else of course. Personally I'd rather have the bigger boat, cost of the boat isnt really the issue, but the hole in the water to throw money in gets bigger. Going from 2.5mpg to 1.5mpg sucks too, it really depends how you use it, we do a lot of cruising and use a lot of fuel, if you do just the drive 5 minutes to a cove and spend the weekend or use it as a floating condo tied up at the dock then fuel burn isnt a big issue. The 280 doesnt look as dated as some other early 2000 boats and thats a big plus, boattest.com puts the top speed at 46mph and cruise at 33mph with twin 240hp 5.0s (lightly loaded) which is pretty nice. A single small block 28 footer wont perform like that. Downside is those engines will be close together and changing a BIII impeller is tough enough with a single, with a 9'5" beam its got to be tight between those two engines.

No doubt the get the biggest you can afford right off the bat is great advice, but I know a lot of people that did that and ended going smaller a couple seasons later because of costs and ended up back in a smaller boat. Only you know what you can afford, how much time you can spend maintaining it and how you are going to use it.

The 260 does seem neglected but the price is $1k below nada low(not including the trailer cost). So its a question of how much work and money.

The 280 has 260hp motors...so better yet. If what you say about the drop in gas milage is true (-1mpg) thats a costly hit. I do like to boat around some though...so that is a consideration. Its also been in fresh water only and not slipped.

I have a diesel truck so pulling a 280 isn't an issue issue except getting it in and out of my driveway entrance. I could get by without a permit as they are pretty lenient here since its 9'5".

I'll know more after we look at this FW 278 today though. Its got a white bottom paint.

298vista2000 - I would love a 300+ but to difficult to go to another lake with it. If my main lake was really large then I would get a 300+...but the lake I mostly go to(10miles away, Saguaro Lake) is not really big.

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Now Looking for Cruiser
2001 Chevy Silverado 2500 diesel (my pull vehicle)
Previous:
1999 28' Adventure Craft
2008 24' Sun Tracker Party Barge 24 Signiture
1997 14.5' Sea Doo Speedster with twin motors (whiplash)
1995 Sea Doo XP

It's hard to put a value on being able to change your scenery whenever you want! When we bought our 268 it didn't come with a trailer, and for the first couple of years we didn't mind not having one. After 5 years of boating in the same location, even with it being as massive as Lake Michigan, we were ready for a change of scenery this year and bought a trailer. Hands down the best boating decision we have ever made!! We have been all over the place and even out of the country on a trip to Canada!

It sounds like you already know this, but thought I would help bolster your decision to stick with a trailerable cruiser. Here's a nice one I ran across yesterday while looking at storage and I know it's REALLY far from you but sure looks like a nice deal. Freshwater, loaded with genset, and on a trailer!
http://www.1stchoicemarine.com/280searay.html Maybe it can at least give you something to compare to?

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Our Boating Blog: http://ben-dana.blogspot.com/

2005 268 Vista "Sea Pickle II"
1979 AMF Alcort Puffer
Previous:
2003 FW190 Horizon
1973 Startcraft 18ft "Sea Pickle"