www.iFourWinns.com

My wife and i are considering trading in our 2005 searay 280 sundancer for this boat. I really like the layout of the cockpit and the more modern looking cabin over the searay 340. My question is about engine choice. What type of cruise numbers are you getting with the 320hp motors in the stern drive configuration? I know with the 320 hp as an inboard would be too slow for me. Any input on the crusader 6.0l package? How come in a boat this size you cannot get a pair of 8.1's like in the searay? Lastly, at the tobay beach boat show in long island they had a leftover 07 for 219k boat show price with the crusader inboard package and loaded up with aft cabin door. What do you think of this deal? How much lower do you think they could go? Thanks in advance for everyones input.

We have the VP 5.7 OSXi I/O. The boat works great. We have had as many as 10 people on board and still got up on plan very good. We were able to get 40 MPH out of it on the GPS. With a full tank of water and half a tank of gas with all the people on board. We are very please with our 348. We have the private stateroom. Which is very nice when you have guest staying with you.

_________________
348 Vista ( Last Call )
Raystown PA

I think you should be able to get that boat for $200,000 to 205,000. I just picked one up with the 6.2 v drives for 190,000. Max speed is about 35 loaded up. I went through the same process, had it narrowed down to the Sea Ray 340 and the FW 358. I just think Sea Ray has been living on their name the past few years. Big issues for me were:

Walk through windshield
Cockpit layout (no lounge on port side in Sea Ray)
cabinetry in the cabin
size and shape of swim platform
storage in back of boat
bow rail with safety rail

I went through very much the same decision as you are going through. Last year (2006) I participated in a lease share where I had a 1/10th share of a Searay 340. During this time I was able to determine many things I really liked about the boat as well as many things I really didn't like. Some of them were pretty obvious (lack of center pass-thru on the windshield) some were less obvious (glued down carpeting in the cabin, someone spilled red wine which required cutting up the carpet and reglueing new carpeting). The 340 I was on was a V-drive twin big block boat. I really liked the quiet performance of the drive system but didn't care for the fuel efficiency numbers at all.

In the end I went with a custom ordered Four Winns 358 Vista. I opted for the OSXi 320hp 5.7l VP ocean (composite) sterndrives. I've been quite happy with the boat for the most part but this is my first sterndrive boat and there are a few things I don't love. The boat is definitely noisier at low and medium speed than the v-drive SR was. The handling at these speeds is a little more twitchy and the handling around the dock is definitely not as easy as the v-drive boat. Also, fuel economy numbers are harder to derive on a VP powered boat than the Merc boats because of the lack of smartcraft or similar system. I hadn't realized just how annoying of an absence this would be to me, but I really miss it. I have fuel flow meters (navman Fuel 3100) installed but they are not nearly as tightly integrated as the smartcraft and they are much more trouble prone. Overall this year I'm seeing about 1.1-1.3mpg at cruise (25 knots) with top end being far worse and 6 knots about 2mpg. I spend a lot of time at low speed putting around the Chicago River and cruising near shore Lake Michigan and the boat is a pleasure to use in almost all cases. 8-12 knots is the big exception. I get unpleasant harmonics from the drive line and predictably poor fuel economy.

My big deciders towards the FW were:
* many of the features that are standard on the FW and options on the SR
* Much more modern look of the FW
* Walk through Windshield
* Port Lounge
* Camper Canvas vs. Arch canvas
* Separate shower/head from rest of bathroom

A few negatives for the FW vs. the SR:
* No smartcraft or similar engine management system (at least with VP power as I chose)
* Aft cabin is much more open in SR
* Four step companion way stairs are easier to negotiate than FW's three step stairs
* Available bow thruster
* Better gel coat work (I think, others might disagree)
* Some small touches, easy to use switches at top of companionway stairs that turn on and off cabin and cockpit speakers, etc.

Obviously on all of these things your mileage may vary, but this is what I found and mostly have verified having now spend a season on each of the two boats.

Ben

_________________
2001 Cruisers 4450
Volvo TAMD-74P 480hp Diesels

I'll have to compare the mid-cabin space between our 348 and the 340DA. I have the previous style 'puzzle steps' and there are four of them. I'll also look for the speaker controls, that's one thing that IS tedious on the XMD3 Clarion stereo. I'm not sure if it's better on the CMD5 and Sony stuff they install now.

I added a pair of Lowrance fuel flow senders and their LMF-200 digital display for fuel monitoring. It's been nice to have. I also added cabling to bridge that into the engine network and the Raymarine E-80. I find it's less than useful to show engine data on the chart plotter. It's more of a "cool gadget" than anything useful. There's just not enough room to show a decent amount of charts/weather/radar and engine data. And you NEED to have engine data like tach, pressures and temps in front of you at all times when underway. That and the analog gauges give you a predictable point on the range to watch for changes. If the needles move from their nominal position then you know something requires attention. You can't quite get the same quick scanning simplicity when using digital numbers on a display. If I had to get rid of the analog gauges I'd probably replace them with digital ones that imitated analog! The added advantage of a digital multi-function gauge is being able to page through different datasets as needed. Some stuff you don't need to see all the time.

_________________
-Bill Kearney, 2005 348 Vista

Bill,

What engines do you have? I've been looking at the Lowrance gauge packages and it looks to me like they would do the best job of replicating the smartcraft functionality. Unfortunately on my engines (VP 5.7 OSXi) I haven't been able to figure out a way to get engine data out of the engines. They don't appear to be NMEA 2000 compatible. I'm wondering if you found anything that would work, though I think I kind of remember you may have Crusaders power.

Thanks
Ben

_________________
2001 Cruisers 4450
Volvo TAMD-74P 480hp Diesels

Well thanks for all the info. My dealer just gave me a quote for a new 08 358 optioned with electronics and a 5.7L volvo i/o engines. He is willing to give 72k for my trade(05 280 sundancer) but he wants a whopping 234,900 for the Four winns. This seems like a lot to me.

Hey Gang - new to the forum here as the 358 has really made an impression on me in my quest to move up from my '06 260 Sundancer - which I have thoroughly loved for it's one season - but it showed me how much I love the cruiser lifestyle coming out of my previous Sundeck and I'm not going to waste anytime making the move up. I was SURE I was going to move into the 340 Sundancer until the very same points made clear on this thread piled up to high on the negative side. Despite my complete satisfaction with Sea Ray's product, they are sadly behind the curve in boats this size with certain design elements and basic amenities (hello cabin door screen). Same with the Cruisers 340. I've been looking hard at the 358 through the website & brochure after the better half saw it at a boat show and was sold. So now, I'm looking for any and all feedback on the brand because I've heard some, but not a lot on build quality, gelcoat quality, resale etc. Please don't hold back! Separately, I'm trying to get a sense of the power options. I am planning to go with V-Drives, but am concerned that anything other than the 8.1's will be underpowered as everyone always said the 8.1's were a perfect match for the 340 Sundancer and the boats are similar in weight.

I'm thrilled that if I join the family, you have a terrific and active forum! Thanks in advance!

_________________
Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

I'm not a big v-drive guy and if I wanted a 358 with v-drives, I would have to take one out for a drive. I drove a SR340 with 8.1's v-drives and it went well enough but not a rocket.

Chad says a 6.2 liter v-drive 358 tops out at 35 mph. If that's wide open throttle, that's a little slow, you have to cruise at 20-22. Boattest.com has measured numbers for the 2006 348 (same boat) with 6.0 Crusaders, it tops out at 39 and cruises at 26.

I'm definitely going I/O but I'm still on the fence with 5.7 Volvo vs 6.2 Mercury. My last two Searays had Merc B3 and I had some minor corrosion, so I'm leaning Volvo. But like they say there's no replacement for displacement.

_________________
2008 V358 Two-tone Blue V/P Dual Prop 320 HP
Lake Winnipesaukee, NH

I think if you want high top end speed stay away from the V drives. We tested both and liked the smooth feel of the v drive and how fast they got the boat to plane vs. the stern drives. Top end speed was not a huge issue for us as we rarely go over 5 miles before we park the boat to start the festivities

Thanks for the feedback... Obviously the V-Drive vs. I/O topic has been debated ad nauseum, but is sounds like you're pleased with how quickly the V-Drives plane (which is important to me and I assume with the Crusader package there is a bit more top-end. I'm more interested in the smoothest ride, at idle and speed, and better performance around the dock - so I assume the V is the way to go. I gave up on worrying too much about top-speed when I moved into this class of boat (which was certainly an adjustment) and find the difference in fuel economy between the two setups not significant enough to factor into the decision. I do have a feeling the lack of Smartcraft will be an annoyance - I also really like having the integration with my Northstar unit on my SR. Is there at least some kind of digital readout for RPM's? Anyone know if the Crusader package uses DTS? So many questions!!

_________________
Previously:
2008 V358/Volvo 5.7 GXi Inboards

By Way of reference on that deal... I ordered an '07 358v fully loaded about this time last year. I upgraded to the E series Raymarine system w/ weather, stainless windshield header, flexiteak swim platform, mid-berth TV, and a bunch of other options I can't remember and paid under $180k. I had no trade so it was easier to figure out what I was actually paying. I think you can probably do a bunch better, but it sounds like you already knew that.

Ben

_________________
2001 Cruisers 4450
Volvo TAMD-74P 480hp Diesels

Duped Post

_________________
2001 Cruisers 4450
Volvo TAMD-74P 480hp Diesels

Chad, the V-drive boat got up on plane faster? I guess I wasn't expecting that, now more to think about.

Ben, how does the boat perform with the 5.7 I/O? I saw your thread on wandering, but how about straight line performance.

I'm not looking for crazy speed just want to cruise around 30 MPH without the motor crying for mercy.

_________________
2008 V358 Two-tone Blue V/P Dual Prop 320 HP
Lake Winnipesaukee, NH

I just received another email from the salesmen and he stated that the boat would list for 283k with prep and destination charges equipped the way i would want it for the ordered 08. They will not go lower then the 234,900 unless i get my own financing instead of the 2.9% for 3 years being offered now. He said I could save an additional 7k bringing the price to 227,900. Has anyone dealt with kydds marine down in Long Island. I feel like I am being jerked around. I had hoped to buy the boat this weekend at the boat show so i wouldn't have to winterize my own.